I went to a couple of talks by Alfie Kohn this week. I’ve been a big fan of his ever since I ran into an article of his in the Emacs distribution back when I was in college. His book No Contest was a big influence on my teaching when I was a grad student and postdoc. (I wish that Punished by Rewards could have been more of an influence, but it takes more bravery than I have to avoid giving grades at a school like Stanford, though I did at least spend time thinking about when I was doing so and what values I was demonstrating by the methods I used to assign grades.)
It’s been a little while since I’d read any of his books (though I had recently bought his next-to-last one, still sitting on my books-to-read stack): he’s mostly been concentrating on schools, while I’m out of teaching, and he’s saying things that, while quite sensible, aren’t opening up as much new mental ground for me as his earlier books did. But I was excited to see that he was giving a couple of talks locally, so of course I went to both.
He’s a very lively speaker, it turns out. Or perhaps I should say very lively: not gospel revival meeting lively, or anything, but he provides a quite entertaining theatrical experience. He makes just as much sense in person as he does in his books; takes a few more pot shots against people he disagrees with, but not so much as to be distasteful, especially since the evidence really is there in the footnotes in his books.
The first talk was on schooling (“Progressive Education”, I believe the title was); I didn’t see much there that I hadn’t seen in his books (though maybe that’s because I don’t think as intently about teaching now that I’ve been (quite happily) out of the teaching business for a couple of years), but it did get me thinking about ways in which Miranda’s classroom, while quite good, is less than ideal. (No disrespect intended towards Miranda’s classroom; if you know of an ideal classroom, good for you, and Miranda’s classroom does an awful lot of things right.) I sat next to one of the other parents from Miranda’s classroom; she’d recently discovered Alfie Kohn on her own, and I’d lent her my copy of Punished by Rewards; I think she’s planning to pass it on to Miranda’s teacher, with certain bits emphasized.
The second talk was on parenting; it turns out that he has a new book out on the subject, which I picked up a copy of. This talk struck closer to home: I may not be a teacher these days, but I’m certainly a parent! And it pointed out some areas where we could try to improve: we don’t use rewards a lot, for example, but we do use them a little. (And some things that are a bit borderline: from my point of view, the reason why we don’t let Miranda have dessert if she hasn’t eaten a reasonable amount for dinner is because we don’t want her to eat dessert food at the expense of a more balanced diet, but obviously one could analyze that as either a reward or a punishment as well.) Or there are areas where we tell Miranda she has to do things where we could certainly spend more time listening to Miranda and trying to find a solution where our desires (assuming they are reasonable) are met but where we do that in a way that meets her needs better as well. Good talk; I’m looking forward to reading his latest book.
I was hoping to be able to ask him what he thinks about homeschooling, especially the John Holt-inspired versions: it seems like he and John Holt would have agreed about a lot of things, but John Holt came to the conclusion that schools in general are harmful, while Alfie Kohn hasn’t come to that conclusion. Unfortunately, there was almost no time for questions at the end of his education talk, and he was too busy / jetlagged after the talk for me to feel comfortable asking him any questions. I’m e-mailing him the question, though; hopefully I’ll get a response.
Post Revisions:
There are no revisions for this post.
Hi-me again-I wrote you before when we were deciding about choosing PACT for our kids. Having decided to move to PACT, I was a little concerned when I saw that you thought that Miranda’s teacher needed to see Punished by Rewards–this is just the sort of thing we are trying to get away from by leaving our mainstream school (i.e., points/stickers/prizes for good behavior). Which teacher does she have? Has this been addressed by you or the other parent you mentioned?
Also, re. post-5th grade–we would be interested in PACT extending into middle school, and when I mentioned this to another PACT parent, she said that there had been some talk about this. Christa McAuliffe School in Cupertino is K-8.
Finally, don’t know Alfie Kohn’s new parenting book, but I highly recommend the Faber/Mazlisch books, particularly How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk (for practical how-to–getting kids to cooperate without punishment and bribery, problem-solving with kids) and Liberated Parents, Liberated Children: Your Guide to A Happier Family (somewhat more motivational/big picture). Having been to MANY parenting talks through the years of Las Madres and co-op preschool, these authors are the ones that EVERY speaker recommends.
-Felicia
p.s. I guess the point of a blog is that strangers will read it, but I kind of feel like I am spying/intruding on personal space. And then I feel old for feeling that way!
5/7/2005 @ 7:43 pm
I assure you, there are very few rewards in Miranda’s classroom, much less than in traditional classrooms. The one I was thinking of was that, if kids read their kid writing to five people, they can get a sticker, but that’s about it.
Her teacher is Sue Lampkin; I really think Sue is fantastic. The most striking thing to me is the kids in the classroom; I really enjoy interacting with every single child in the classroom, and while I’m sure the kids and their parents have a lot to do with that, I think a lot of credit must be due to the way Sue runs the classroom and the atmosphere that she encourages there. Another thing that I was very impressed by was her comment that one of her saddest moments as a parent was watching her kids’ voices be squelched by their teachers, and her vow that that would never happen in her classroom. That’s extremely important to me as well: Miranda most definitely has a voice of her own, and I would far rather yank her from school than let that be squelched, but much better if the choice doesn’t arise in the first place. (Reading all the different kids’ kid-writing pieces is a hoot.)
I have no reason to believe that the other PACT teachers aren’t equally excellent, but I assure you that Miranda’s teacher is wonderful.
5/7/2005 @ 9:00 pm
Well, you may feel like an intruder when you read a blog, but sometimes something surprising happens! I have no comment on the blog (except that reading about all this makes me nervous, as we welcomed Bryan George Wolf about a year and a half ago), but I wonder if you are you the Felicia I used to know? Shelly
7/12/2005 @ 1:12 pm