There’s been a lot of discussion recently about choices in games, and the effect that game save mechanisms have on the ethical impact of those choices. I won’t even attempt to link to the vast majority of the conversation, but two contributions (both involving Nels Anderson) particularly struck me today: slides for a talk by Randy Smith called “How to Help Your Players Stop Saving All The Time” that Nels mentioned on twitter, and an Experience Points Podcast episode on “The Decision Dilemma”.
I’m an obsessive saver when I play games (though, fortunately, these days less obsessive a reloader than I used to be), but listening to Jorge, Scott, and Nels talk on the latter made me realize that many people save games for completely different reasons than I do. The typical scenario that they discussed is a player who saves a game right before a big choice in a game (typically a moral one) and then plays through the different branches, reloading as necessary, before deciding which route to commit to.
The thought of doing that almost never crosses my mind. (Especially if the choice is a moral one.) And when it does, I reject it out of hand. For example, when playing Mass Effect, I wasn’t really thinking too hard when going through the dialogue tree that leads to a choice of which party member dies. I ended up inadvertently choosing to save the party member I liked less; once I realized that, I could have reloaded and not lost much time, but instead I felt a pang of regret and continued playing. (Though, to be sure, I’m not sure I made the “wrong” choice even there—it struck me as the sort of choice that, in the real world, I would want to not make based on personal likes and dislikes, and it’s not clear to me that other factors wouldn’t have swayed me to make the choice I actually made in game.)
Instead, the reasons why I save are quite different: I save because I don’t want to spend time doing stuff that I don’t enjoy. I do not want to have to fight through a stretch of the game, to die, and to have to replay that section. (Unless, of course, it’s a game whose mechanics I’m particularly fond of.) Perhaps worse, I do not want to survive the next section of the game but end up in a weakened state, making battles half an hour later much more difficult. (And probably requiring extra reloading when I reach them!) And, of course, the absolute worst is when I survive by avoiding encounters that would otherwise have given me experience points, forcing me to repeat battles (or grind in order to level up) for the entire rest of the game.
The above mostly plays out in tactical situations. If the outcome of a battle went well enough and it’s easy enough and fast enough to save, then I will typically save; if it went badly enough, I will typically reload; and if it’s in the middle, I’ll play along for a while longer. As I said above, the more strategic choices are much less likely to make me think seriously about reloading; and, even when I’m nervous about a choice, it’s not usually an ethical choice, it’s much more likely to be a choice about which branch of a skill tree to improve my character in.
So the podcast episode was, to me, more a glimpse into other people’s minds than anything that spoke to me directly. Randy Smith’s slides, however, were a different matter—indeed, right near the beginning he talks about frequent saves being driven by a need for safety, which is a good match for my feelings. (Though he branches out into other motivations later in the slide deck.)
I wish I’d heard him actually give the talk; I’m having a hard time grasping the nuances just from the slides. He ends the first part of the talk with a claim that “reducing compulsion is good, regardless of save/load design”, which I tend to agree with—in particular, I don’t claim that my obsessive saving is a good thing, in fact I’m willing to accept that it’s a bad thing. (E.g. because, as he says, it takes my attention outside the game.) I also agree with him that cheap save/load sets up a feedback loop encouraging people to do so more often. (I played Doom rather differently from Marathon, for example.)
It’s not clear to me, however, that I prefer for games to solve this problem by limiting the contexts in which you could save: I’d much prefer to solve the problem by limiting the lack of safety that drives me to save in the first place. (Though I’m also willing to believe that this is a false choice, and that a deeper analysis would lead to a more satisfying resolution. In fact, I’m willing to believe that, if I’d been at Randy’s talk, I would understand him as doing exactly that sort of deeper analysis!)
Consider the basic choices that I outlined above: if I don’t save and then die, or if I do save but don’t reload after a stretch in which I played badly, then I will get punished for my actions, with that punishment lasting in some cases for the entire rest of the game. In other words: if I play badly (or even less than perfectly), the game will reduce my enjoyment of the game for hours to come.
This is a lousy way to treat players. If the game really is about challenging the player’s skills, then of course you want bad play to have consequences; such a game, however, then it should hedge its bets in two ways, both by putting skill-driven play front and center and by having individual bouts be bounded with no lasting in-game consequences from one bout to the next. (E.g. puzzle games, rhythm games, fighting games, multiplayer FPS games.) But if you want your game to have a long-term flow, then don’t treat your players this way.
So: at the very least, bound the negative consequences. There are lots of tactics for doing this; checkpoints are a tried-and-true one, but I also rather like the Zelda technique of both having the game be kind enough that death is relatively rare and having the consequences of death be limited to needing to refill your hearts / bombs / arrows (all of which are available from clumps of grass) and perhaps needing to traverse a part of a dungeon. (Usually a small part: in particular, Zelda dungeons are generally good about giving you a shortcut from the entrance to the boss fight once you’ve gone through the rest of the dungeon once.) (Incidentally, I think part of people’s dissatisfaction with Majora’s Mask is in the ways in which this principle doesn’t hold, or at least doesn’t manifest itself in the same fashion as it does in other games in the series.)
I also really enjoyed the way Lego Star Wars handled this issue: in that game, your character has almost no state at all, which means that the game can simply respawn you when you die. A skill-based player can still take pride in rarely dying when progressing through a level; other people can have no end of fun by simply mashing buttons.
Another issue around saving and loading is the lack of information: most of the time (pre-boss save points being an exception), I save not because I know I’m likely to die in the upcoming area or because I’m likely to play in a sub-optimal manner, but rather because I want to limit my losses in the face of an uncertain probability of death. And, perhaps more interestingly, the reason why I reload isn’t that I know that I played sub-optimally in a fashion that will hurt me down the road, it’s because I know that I played sub-optimally and I don’t know what the consequences of that will be.
If you treat this simply as an information problem, it can be significantly improved without harming gameplay. Start with the reload problem: that shows up most starkly if the game doesn’t put any limits on your capabilities (e.g. your health, your ammo supply, the level of your character). In that situation, if you do anything suboptimal (e.g. miss a single shot!), you may fear that it will hurt you going forward.
If, however, you have caps on these attributes, this problem goes away. For example, if there’s a maximum amount of ammo that you can hold, then if it takes you three shots to kill an enemy whom you could have killed with two shots, and if you subsequently pick up enough ammo that you’re at the ammo limit even after wasting that shot, then you know that the missed shot didn’t hurt you. Concretely, my worry level in Deus Ex declined notably once I started hitting limits of this sort.
These sorts of attribute caps are most effective in directly attacking the problem of when to reload, but they also help with the problem of needing to save in the first place. Your character’s status with respect to various attribute caps give you a concrete way of measuring how vulnerable your character is; assuming that the game has earned your trust that it won’t throw major challenges at you without some advance warning, this will frequently allow you to avoid saving without seriously worrying that doing so will hurt you.
I’d love to see more games with significant moral choices. And I’d be delighted to have not saving be a part of that, as long as that doesn’t destroy my enjoyment of the game in a more mundane aspect.
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Good stuff. It’s interesting to see how your approach to saving differs from mine. Though I’m with you on the ‘Save early, save often” mantra, I’ll almost never reload after poor execution. It’s the repetition that irks me, and the occasional choose-your-own-adventure cheating trick. What are your thoughts on auto-saves? When a game auto-saves after successful missions, even if I’ve performed sub-optimally, it tends to reinforce a sense of safety without encouraging OCD behavior. Red Faction does this and I’ve pretty much stopped saving altogether. If they game decided to limit saving options by ONLY allowing auto-saves, thereby revoking your save privileges, I don’t think I would care or even notice all that much.
8/2/2009 @ 9:59 pm
I’m all for leaning heavily on auto-saves after successful missions and for not-reloading, as long as the game supports that in two ways. First, your performance on that mission shouldn’t hinder you going forward: if I finish the mission out of bullets and low on health, I don’t want that to screw me up in the next mission. Second, there should be reasonably frequent in-mission transient checkpoints to catch my back if I accidentally die, and screwing up my resources during the mission so badly that I have to reload the save at the start of the mission should be relatively rare.
If a game did both of those things, I’d be happy basically never doing explicit saves. 3-D Mario games are an example of this; they have a save function, but from my point of view it’s largely vestigial.
8/3/2009 @ 11:50 am
To me, saving before any critical choice and the playing out the various options before choosing the most optimal one makes me feel like I am cheating myself. In a well-designed game, the “wrong” choice should still lead down interesting paths, and experiencing those twists and turns is a vital part of the game experience.
Much like you describe, I find myself saving/reloading when I feel that I’ve made a tactical choice that could cripple me down the line. Defeating a difficult battle in sub-optimal condition usually isn’t enough, but realizing I’ve made a critical error in my balance of forces, or leveled up a character completely incorrectly usually hits that threshold.
8/3/2009 @ 7:26 pm
The ethics of saving? Particularly when you face a moral choice in the game? I’ve never thought about it. Maybe that’s because the games I’ve played the most recently are from the Grand Theft Auto family. All of your in-game choices involve varying degrees of immorality, which is what makes the game fun. :-)
But I too am a compulsive saver, especially when it comes to first-person shooter games. I’ll typically save at the end of each level (really, a proxy for the beginning of the next level) and play and restart enough times until I feel I’m satisfied with how well I’ve been able to get through the level. Just getting through isn’t enough.
In most of the games I’ve played there isn’t even a huge penalty for dying. Usually you get respawned with 100% health but no or only basic weapons. This is true of GTA, Doom, Quake, and Descent, the games with which I’m most familiar. But collecting weapons and armor and stuff is enough of an investment that I want to hang on to it.
A notable exception is Myst, where you basically can’t make any fatal mistakes… until the very end, when there are a couple decisions that have serious consequences. I was pretty sure I knew the outcome, but of course I had to save and try all the possibilities just the same. :-)
Another notable exception is the “rogue” character-based dungeon game. (Remember that?) The authors had a particularly strict view of saving. If I recall correctly, you could have ONE saved game, and you were only allowed to restart and continue ONCE. If you were killed, you were NOT allowed to restart from where you had saved previously. The game also took great pains to prevent this policy from being circumvented, e.g. by checking the inode-change time, checksumming the file contents, removing the save file after restore, etc.
This took a significant amount of fun out of the game for me. Especially in the upper levels, when you can encounter monsters that can kill you in one or two turns. Sometimes death is unavoidable. It’s quite a time investment to get a powerful character deep into the dungeon, and if you’re killed immediately stepping into a room it’s just a huge bummer.
So, one of the first things I did when I got my hands on the source code was to disable the strict only-one-restart policy. That made it fun again. :-)
8/3/2009 @ 9:10 pm
Right now, I’m playing Final Fantasy IV (DS) and Mass Effect (X360), and its strange playing a JRPG and a Western Shooter/RPG at the same time, one of the main reasons being the different save systems.
I have long been an advocate for what I see as a mostly Western-style save system, which consists of auto-save and saving anywhere. Mass Effect does a real great job with auto-saving, and at 15 hours in, I’m only at 40 saves. I have never gone back to re-attempt a dialogue option because I’m trying to make my playing experience as legitimate as possible, and not going out of my way to abuse the system. I know that Mass Effect is a pretty forgiving game, and that its game world is not going to punish me too much if I should venture the wrong way.
FFIV on the other hand has a terrible knack for putting an almost painful amount of distance between saves, and it makes me want to play it less when I know I’m about to enter a dungeon and that I’m going to have to commit a significant amount of time to the game until I can see a save point or visit the world map again. Knowing the amount of grinding I’ll have to do between saves really dampens the experience. The difference between FFIV and ME is kind of like the differences outlined on slides 59 and 60 in the powerpoint.
And on a totally different hand, I have had 400+ saves in my 80+ hours in Fallout 3, usually with 7 actual save slots available at various points in time, but the only times I’ve gone back to reload something are due to bugs or glitches. I always save and say “Oh, I’ll go back and try out dialogue option X” or whatever, but I never do. I guess I just like to know that the option to go back and do it is there for a while until I realize I never will and save over that slot anyway. I do this for every RPG, and always have a bevy of saves on hand, and never actually return to them to try things differently.
8/3/2009 @ 9:12 pm
I too save way more often than I reload, but that’s also because I play most games like I’m walking on eggshells. Your description of why I save constantly is spot on – I don’t want to backtrack too much if I die suddenly, nor do I want to proceed if I perform particularly poorly. I think any attempts to limit the amount/frequency of players saving is futile at best and downright cruel at worst, because I believe consumers have the right to play games the way they want to. Any game that punishes players with scarce checkpoints and lots of backtracking isn’t a game I’m going to finish.
And really, with the technology we have now, shouldn’t “save anywhere” be the norm? It’s not like it makes games easier, it just gives us more control over our leisure time. My biggest gripe with the otherwise-excellent Castlevania 2D DS games is their reliance on “save points” that, should I die suddenly after making a wrong turn, erase the experience points and rare items I had earned since last saving. Saving protects my “investment” in the game, it doesn’t remove the challenge of fighting the enemies or exploring the dungeons.
8/3/2009 @ 9:45 pm
Great to see those links were of interest =)
It’s interesting how save/load was, way back in the day, initially merely a way of bookmarking progress. It’s now become a more complex mechanism with various consequence as discussed here and elsewhere. I think a first step toward address this issue (where appropriate, of course) is to separate the bookmarking functionality any other save/load mechanism.
Any game that needs a save system to restore progress ought to provide a bookmark save system independent of other save/load systems. Similar to what more and more portable games off, a one-time save/load slot. There is then more latitude to implement the save/load system without worry about it meeting (or failing to meet) the requirement to provide bookmarking.
8/4/2009 @ 8:40 am
That’s a useful analytical distinction. I’ll propose a related one: from my point of view, I like games for which there’s no reason to have more than one save slot. (Unless multiple people are playing through the game.) If a game is doing that, then chances are it’s easy enough to recover from mistakes for me to be happy.
Given a good enough implementation of that, I’m happy for the game to manage the save slot for me (as Jorge mentioned in his first comment), including auto-saving after I make a big choice (which I don’t care about but which other people, including I think you, do).
8/4/2009 @ 9:16 am
Ideally games should NOT do what Fable 2 does, that is having game changing choices and then auto save your game right after, sure it means you have to stick with your choices, but you have to allow players to experiment a little before deciding, I simply wanted to see what my character would look like as a female, little did I know I would be stuck like that because unlike just about every other role playing game Fable 2 doesn’t allow to experiment with different story branches in one game.
8/8/2009 @ 3:52 pm
@Stuart Marks: Yes I remember Rogue going to great lengths to delete your save file and make sure your dwarf stayed dead. To which I said “Write-protected floppy disk HA HA.”
Briefly: Autosaving at beginning of “level”, good. (It’s nice when all levels completed are available for arbitrary replay later.)
Autosaving before boss fight, also good.
Bookmarking progress in long levels, also good, as I have to stop for food, sleep, calls of nature and other interruptions, like many of us humans, and especially when you have children.
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8/17/2009 @ 2:14 am